posted 03-23-2003 11:22 PM            

Polygraph Countermeasure Challenge Clock

On 28 January 2002, Dr. Drew C. Richardson

reiterated his challenge to the polygraph

community to prove their claimed ability to detect

countermeasures (techniques for beating the

polygraph). This clock figure shows the number of

days this new challenge has gone without takers.

What are the polygraph operators afraid of?

(Note: The above is just my bootlegged version of the HTML script that appears on antipolygraph.org and is provided solely for this discussion. )

Since this discussion has taken place for some time in an unrelated thread, I have opened a new thread to discuss the countermeasure challenge. Speak up on your thoughts on this topic.

posted 03-24-2003 07:24 AM            

Also as I said earlier, some counter measures can work. Especially if the subject understands Polygraph and can sit and practice on an instrument. Counter measures have been with us for along time but not at the level of sophistication seen now. There are examiners out there, especially young ones that can and will be beat.

This is something, we in the profession have to learn to deal with on an on going basis. We have to keep ourself educated and at least one step ahead of the anti's and the examinee's.

Even though we are seeing alot more in the way of counter measures it is still a small percentage. It will continue to grow in the future and we must stay up with and slightly ahead of new developements.

Even if we passed this challenge the anti's would just come up with something "new and better" to sell the unsuspecting public.

We need to stay together, stay educated and not get in a pissing contest with the opposition.

posted 03-24-2003 10:28 AM         

The only way this challenge can be completed is in a laboratory setting (lab referring to simulated). Do you see the BIG picture? You would be walking into an ambush of failure set up by the anti poly folks!

The best way to combat these idiots is to do what we have always done......nail them(examinees) to the wall when countermeasures are detected.

I just did a pre-employment test for a large police department where the candidate attempted countermeasures at every control question. Copies of these charts have been shared with other examiners in my area who collect countermeasure attempts.

Goerge and his pundits say we can't detect countermeasure. I say Bull@#$# !! We do it every day, in real(not simulated) situations.

I agree that to accept any challenge set up by George and company, would be nothing more that to enter another urinary conflict!

posted 03-24-2003 11:27 AM            

I have gotten in the habit of telling them the irrelevant questions ( I call them "known truth questions" )are control or comparison questions and seem to get alot of people trying to react to those questions so they are not as good as they think.

We need to keep educating ourselves and talking about what they are attempting and we will stay ahead of them.

Jack

posted 04-04-2003 07:52 AM         

Congratulations on catching the attempted countermeasures! Did you get the confession, too? Any tips on what themes you've found most effective?

What general patterns, if any are you observing in the countermeasures charts you've collected?

And a question for all, what would you estimate the base rate for countermeasures to be among:

1) criminals

2) criminals with limited or no English (I have a theory they are less likely to know about countermeasures)

2) law enforcement applicants

Where are most getting there countermeasure information from? The anti site? Doug Williams? or other?

posted 04-14-2003 10:09 AM         

The only channel an examinee can really control is the pneumo. With pain or a "pucker", the examinee can only hope his GSR and Cardio will react as well. Often it does. Just as often, it does not!

For this reason, I see the most obvious CMs in the Pneumo first. They are most pronounced here and are more subtle in the other two channels. The Pneumo CM's usually look very much alike at each control question.

I think the average law enforcement applicant is more likely to visit Maschke's site than pay Williams for his book. They may also talk to other friends in law enforcement about polygraph techniques.

The guy who has a lot on the line and no real criminal history in my opinion, is more likely to pay for Williams' book. The thought here is if it costs money, it must be good stuff!

I think your average garden variety criminal is more likely to do neither. The criminal is more likely to listen to his crook attorney or his jail house friends on how to mess with the polygraph.

Just my thoughts,

Ted

posted 04-23-2003 10:11 PM            

I disagree with the notion that the only channel affected by countermeasures is the respiratory. There are intrinsic physiological responses to some countermeasures. Some of the tell tail signs become increasingly difficult to detect as the level of sophistication increases. I opine that you are correct in classifying the respiratory tracing as the most notable area to detect some countermeasures.

I too believe that a criminal of below normal to normal intelligence is less likely to research countermeasures. Most notably, the distortion within the respiration would plausibly be more pronounced in these types of spontaneous countermeasures users. However, I have personally seen exceptions to this train of thought.

posted 04-26-2003 12:58 AM            

Have you seen these exceptions in the field or in lab situations? What type of test format Specifics,screening,GKT?

It has been my experience to note that reactions to relevant and controls are more significant in the field than in lab studies.

We have no scientific evidence that countermeasures are effective in the field only we draw inferences from lab studies which reward subjects for beating the test, wereas we punish those who fail in the field.

Reward vs punishment what does that do to fear of detection or attention models in a lab?

What is your definition of a sophisticated subject?.

I know we have touched on this before but I think this is of some importance to clarify.